Funny - they start off with what seems to be an innocent science thought experiment and end up with a typical anti-human diatribe.

Isn't that where most all academie soft science efforts usually end up?

They tend to wind up at "anti-human" because our civilization's activities tend to wind up being "anti-human" - the tragedy of the commons. While the authors seemed to focus on disruption of planetary environmental cycles, I would think that some of our large scale engineering projects, such as highway cuts through mountains, would be noticeable for millions of years. Also possibly tunnels and stuff that we buried. While the things in a landfill might not be identifiable after along time, I would think they would make an odd pocket in the layers of earth.

These writers are using terms for Human societies that are prejudicial. Such as conflating 'civilization' when they mean a 'technologically based culture'.

The root meaning of 'civilization' is a stratified culture of aristocrats and priests ruling an enslaved population. "I am civilized. You are my slave. Those people over there are barbarians until I have enslaved them."

The fabulous claims of this article are speculating without any supporting evidence.

An 'advanced' society that did not leave any traces of mining or metalworking? Roadwork cutting through hills and bridging rivers?

We could fantasize a pre-tech agriculture based society. But no signs of dams? Maybe canals instead of roads?

Qanats, stepwells, and terraces for cultivation should leave some sign even after tens of millions of years.

Perhaps the K2 monster fell exactly where a nascent society of morris-dancing dinosaur farmers just happen to be?

Try getting that image out of your head!

Don't tell me what to think.
WCFTSATFM
https://billymeie...21-0.pdf

The "https://fabbiosa....ffle-us/ would look like for extraterrestrials...

never saw that one before...
Interesting.

Don't tell me what to think.
WCFTSATFM
https://billymeie...21-0.pdf

It takes a critical eye to find the lie.

Examples of ancient high technology cover the planet. One that constantly amazes me are the 1.5 million pound blocks of cut stone that lay on the ground at Baalbek,
Lebanon. Another is an Egyptian obelisk still in the ground at the quarry in Aswan. While partially carved it was abandoned when a large crack was discovered running longitudinally through it. At 137 feet in length the weight of the obelisk is 1200 tons or 2,400,000 pounds. Both the obelisk and the blocks of stone at Baalbek we're carved and were meant to be moved. We're talking about "primitive" ancient civilizations who somehow had the ability to move what we as a modern society are not capable of doing. No machine exists today that could even budge let alone lift and transport 2,000,000 pounds.

The "https://fabbiosa....ffle-us/ would look like for extraterrestrials...

never saw that one before...
Interesting.

You might want to check out the Inga Stone (Brazil) Although not ancient in terms of years it is still of 'archeoastronomical' and contains an, as yet, undecipherable pictograph language. There are a great many artifacts world wide to check out, things that were made or are there, that shouldn't be...but beware of some interpretations. Nonetheless, it does make an interesting diversion if you are looking for some 'light reading /viewing.

How about the human skeletal remains of eight foot and taller giants unearthed in various places around the world? Most skeptics dismiss all unusual phenomena out-of-hand because they have never seen or experienced anything outside of what's been taught in schools and accept that information without question.
That runs counter to science. "Spooky action at a distance." Even Einstein was fallible.

Civilization is based on fire and invention. We look like we were made to make things based on just our human form and a matrix of concepts. No other life had that until after the ice age. Even our ancestors were less than Neanderthal. We should find ancient cell phones, mind and body implants, once human gods living thousands of years, nanobots, free electron space lasers extracting billions of watts from the solar wind, ziggurats, lots of life descended from geneticly modified organisms, the cambrian explosion of life written down in a book from the stone age, the holographic universe written down long before 2008, information preceding a big bang universe. There would be a stain left from earlier advanced lords to modify what had taken billions of years to walk on the earth.

The "https://fabbiosa....ffle-us/ would look like for extraterrestrials...

never saw that one before...
Interesting.

Don't get too excited: https://archyfant...ic-disk/ (see especially Dr. Hammer's statement and the part about Mr. Dona).

If you're calling modern wind energy "centuries-old wind power", then you have to refer to nuclear fission as "an 18th century steam engine". It's a little thing called "being consistent".

As soon as we find microchips of an unusual design in amber I'll bite. Unless a civilization is *that* good that it can erase all its traces (even of its own past buried in deep layers) then we're in "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"-territory. And if we posit this then we're just speculating idly.

if a civilization is able to find a more sustainable way to produce energy without harming its host planet, it will leave behind less evidence that it was there.

Why stop there? A really advanced civilization would have engineered itself to be immune to the elements and produce any kind of energy it needs on an individual basis - i.e. it would have no tech at all.

"We need to figure out a way of producing and using energy that doesn't put us at risk."

We need to figure this out? I could name half a dozen such technologies that already exist in widespread use.

As soon as we find microchips of an unusual design in amber I'll bite

These would be from ancient gamecams I would surmise.
https://www.trail...-reviews

-and might preserve invaluable paleontological data
https://www.googl...yr3zC7M:

I'm just a dumb regular person, so sorry for the dumb question.
Wouldn't steel (or any refined metal for that matter) last longer than animal bones?

Wouldn't steel (or any refined metal for that matter) last longer than animal bones?

Bones get replaced by something more durable - minerals. As for metals, it would depend on which and where and how. Any steel, even stainless, will eventually rust away in the presence of O2.

But an interesting question is, could steel objects become fossilized? Wood fossilizes. Animal tracks, burrows, and scat fossilizes. So why not Subarus and hammers and transmission towers?

An example might be pseudomorphism

"Another well-known pseudomorph is Chalcedony after coral. In the Tampa Bay in Florida, coral has been chemically replaced by Chalcedony, and its original form is preserved..."

-also pseudomorph crystals.

Examples of ancient high technology cover the planet. One that constantly amazes me are the 1.5 million pound blocks of cut stone that lay on the ground at Baalbek,
Lebanon. Another is an Egyptian obelisk still in the ground at the quarry in Aswan. While partially carved it was abandoned when a large crack was discovered running longitudinally through it. At 137 feet in length the weight of the obelisk is 1200 tons or 2,400,000 pounds. Both the obelisk and the blocks of stone at Baalbek we're carved and were meant to be moved. We're talking about "primitive" ancient civilizations who somehow had the ability to move what we as a modern society are not capable of doing. No machine exists today that could even budge let alone lift and transport 2,000,000 pounds.

Google "Taisun crane" and let me know if you are still right....
Also, there are mobile cranes that can lift 1200 tons, FYI

How about the human skeletal remains of eight foot and taller giants unearthed in various places around the world? Most skeptics dismiss all unusual phenomena out-of-hand because they have never seen or experienced anything outside of what's been taught in schools and accept that information without question.
That runs counter to science. "Spooky action at a distance." Even Einstein was fallible.

I don't think people dismiss such finds out of hand but think the point is that these don't turn up in large numbers and/or various places all over the world. R. P. Wadlow (of USA) at 8 ft. 11 ins. tall is the tallest living on record. There have been a large number over 8 ft tall from various parts of the world and even many more at 7 ft-7 ft 11 ins. So digging up a few skeletons at 8 ft. is really no big deal. The real question is where does this rare gene 'mutation' come from?

My other thought has been for a long time about the wheel. It is not hard to imagine some ancient chappy sitting on the side of a hill (waiting for his next meal to show up, perhaps) and notices and some stones roll down the hill without much apparent effort then thinks....etc. I'm not saying that's how it happened but was probably something like that. We have become experts in exploiting that from the earliest carts to the modern car. But suppose on another very windy world wind propulsion was the primary idea and circular objects secondary which when combined, facilitated flight first rather than land travel. Perhaps such civilizations might be viewed as superior but then looking at our land conveyance might viewed similarly wonderful by them. Don't mind me, just an old guy's thought that's all, Ha!

@zeph

Do you see this instinctive immediate downvote? Once the proponents of mainstream science cannot explain some artifact, then their first reaction is to dismiss its existence

just so you know, I downrated you because there is exactly zero evidence that this "genetic disc" has been studied at all, in any scientific form

there exists claims from BS sites like yours above, but there is absolutely no proof that it exists as an "artifact" other than by your claim and the claim of the site owner you link

Moreover, to claim something is made of "lydite" without being able to present any empirical evidence smacks of hoax, especially with the claims that this is being investigated by a man that "... has spent more time in the field than many academically acclaimed Archaeologist"

so it's unverifiable, unvalidatable, and the best you can do is show a "pic" of what looks like a pewter disc made by sand mold casting - which is popular in certain S. American areas

It's just a global warming propaganda piece, 'almost' blaming dinosaurs for their own global warming extinction from driving cars. And besides, the Sleestack had weather control stations.....

The root meaning of 'civilization' is a stratified culture of aristocrats and priests ruling an enslaved population.

Actually I think the root meaning of civilization is to live in cities. However, it has now been expanded to mean almost anything anyone wants it to mean, beyond living in caves.

@zeph

Personally I just maintain information about it, but being agnostic I've no reason to promote or dismiss it, until I have more information about it

calling bullsh*t on this

Personally I perceive such a behavior a sign of lower intelligence in a broad sense

that is because you have a vested interest in defending your beliefs

to date, your predominant argument about most astrophysics is to promote a known debunked belief that has absolutlely no evidence whatsoever other than *your belief* that a series of statements may be interpreted (by you alone) as being supportive of your debunked belief

all while ignoring the repeatedly validated experimental evidence that shows your belief to be patently false

the above is the same thing just in another field of interest

.

and how does that rate in your "field of intelligence" behaviour list?

No machine exists today that could even budge let alone lift and transport 2,000,000 pounds. -robweeve

You must think we're really gullible. Here's the largest thing I could find that has been transported over land: http://www.almajd...tor.aspx ... a 4891 ton evaporator (that's 9,782,000 pounds). One of the two Missile Crawler Transporter Facilities at Kennedy Space Center was recently upgraded so that it can carry 18,000,000 lb.

@zeph

Over half of Britons or Americans still don't believe in evolution, which is relatively well proven already

1- so?

2- just because you can find evidence of delusional behaviour doesn't mean you're not projecting the same delusional behaviour, nor does it mean you're not delusional because others do it

It would be complete waste of time - once some people decide to believe or not believe in something, then every attempt for to change it will just lead to backfire effect

Science facts are facts regardless of whether you believe them or not

Science doesn't educate those who choose to not believe or the hypocrites - it educates the ignorant who wish to make something better

this is just one lesson of technology and modern reality

So why do you think

it teaches *the ignorant who wish to advance* how to find facts and think critically when people like you are debunked

9 Most Mysterious Ancient Artifacts like the hammer of London, ancient screw or iron nails found in Hungarian fossil cedars for to name just a few...-mackita/Zephir

Your London Hammer link is to a non-English website. When I looked for a website that most phys.org readers wouldn't need to find a translator for, I found this: http://paleo.cc/p...mmer.htm . The hammer and the rock it is embedded is claimed to have been found in Cretaceous, Ordovician or Silurian strata, and also to have been found loose on a ledge, not in any strata at all. The hammer's physical appearance is similar to tools from the 19th century, carbon dates allegedly suggested a range of modern to 700 years old, and World War II artifacts have become enmired in similar limy concretions. It's obviously a recent object, and odds are that it was never found in old strata. Thanks for nothing.

Such gullibility. Based on crank cult arguments? They are defending the 'scientific' validity of the Cardiff Giant.

Mackita, your own "ancient screw" link suggests that it is actually the fossilized internal mold of a crinoid stem, something quite natural to find in a 300-million year old rock. And when I look at the "thread" of the "screw," I see no obvious pitch, suggesting a set of rings instead of a continuous thread.

@zeph

A way shittier findings get analyzed and dated by rigorous analytical methods

and per the scientific method, if it can be falsified, it will be
if it's not validated, it's just a singular finding of interest - it isn't scientific fact

and therein lies your entire problem with science
you *ASSume* that a singular study carries the same weight as a validated one (it doesn't)
then you *ASSume* that if it's proven false it's conspiracy (see: https://www.natur...omms9174 ) because you trust [x] persons opinion over the evidence

But in similar way like at the case of overunity or let say cold fusion findings the mainstream science suddenly forgets

no
the mainstream scientists wait for validation from non-related sources and evidence

which never seems to materialise - except, and pay attention here, in *singular* studies that aren't validated

validation trumps belief

make one of your overunity machines and prove me wrong

https://www.inver...s-pissed "It's a highly dangerous attitude to take" they say.

But dangerous for who? So far only establishment of science feels threatened by it.

Ok, I'll bite. It's dangerous for the historical awareness of the population at large because it's a return to the 19th century horror of armchair idiots coming up with crazy hypotheses without any real study of the subject, putting out those theories and having susceptible fools absorb them, which led to some of the most destructive political movements of the late 19th and 20th centuries (including communism, fascism, nazism, Chinese nationalism and Arab nationalism), which all relied on pseudo-history and pseudo-archaeology to give a veneer of scientific respectability to otherwise insane, immoral and outright evil ideologies, which was gobbled up by the scientifically semi-literate part of the population, which is still just that.