I believe in this invention, and I'm going to get an E-Cat as soon as it's available. Why is it so hard to understand Rossi's secrecy? ...
they directly cited Wikipedia for fuck's sake which in itself is probably enough to fail peer review
@Telekinetic: because KFC isn't seeking independent scientific validation for the deliciosity of their original recipe. you don't get to seek scientific validation while holding back the secret sauce. Period. You can, however, be just like KFC, forgo validation, and let the marketplace decide how good your product is. But just like you said, its not commercially available, otherwise you would have already bought one.
If you're a believer, I recommend writing Rossi a check equal to your life savings to help him commercialize the E-cat. Cant lose right??? put your money where your mouth is, or shut up.
It will be very difficult to cheat with such a small device, when continuos measurement devices and video recording
It will be very difficult to cheat with such a small device, when continuos measurement devices and video recording
It would be convincing if they actually started measuring radiation...you know...because it's supposedly fusion?
Either during the test or at the very least afterwards after breaking open the container and comparing to measurements on the individual components beforehand.
I wonder why they never try that.
Not to mention that Rossi never explained why the copper "fusion by-product" from his previous test had the same isotopic ratio as natural copper. Just another nail in the coffin.
"Cosmic-ray positron fraction measurement from 1-GeV to 30-GeV with AMS-01"
where he shares autorship with - hold on to your hats - 183 others (no, that is not a typo. One hundred and eighty three. Lemme guess - he was one of the data typists?)
Because every piece of modern technology has well-known scientific principles underneath it. We know how transistors and radio waves and LCDs all workMuch of 20th century tech was developed and applied without the science to support it. Aeronautics for example. Humans were using fire for millenia before the principles of combustion were understood. In fact tech has more often than not preceded the science which explains it.
But Rossi is claiming something that is LITERALLY impossibleWell if you were familiar with the latest developments re widom larsen theory, including NASA and the US navy support, you would be saying 'presumably improbable' rather than 'LITERALLY impossible!!!' If you were unbiased that is.
Now if the catalyst ends up being weapons grade plutonium all bets are off :-)This much power could indeed be weaponized.
But Rossi is claiming something that is LITERALLY impossibleWe already know of other methods of initiating LENR and people are looking to develop these as well.
It's that we have decades and piles of research that all very definitively points away from the claim Rossi is trying to makeFunny you dont sound like the NASA scientists along with widom and larsen who are much more familiar with this research than you, and who seem to be somewhat more optimistic.
none of the telltale signs of any form of "nuclear reaction," low-energy or not, are present here. The isotopes are wrong, the radiation signature is wrong. A nucleus, as far as this research goes at least, is a pretty well understood thingNOT according to widom-larsen theory which you are obviously not familiar with.
I find I need to inform you, usually you have different roles, competences, ages etc.
is the indication of anomalous heat energy in a reactor device at energy densities far above conventional
It is easy to say that something was faked, but how, in this case, was it done?
. The charge sets off the production of thermal energy after having been activated by heat
produced by a set of resistor coils located inside the reactor.
Otto: where exactly is this Widom Larsen theory published? Just because someone has worked at NASA does not make them an expert on nuclear physics. The nuclear physicists I've studied with (as I am a PhD in Nuclear Physics myself) find cold fusion claims to be pretty ridiculous on the wholeLet me be polite. Look it the fuck up. Try GOOGLE.
The simplest way I can think of is in that he turned up the juice on the coils in the cylinderOd course if AA would really want to know, instead of just pretending, he would try the link I posted where people are discussing real possibilities.
With those you could keep a lump of metal glowing indefinitely as long as you keep the juice running, easilyWell, per the discussion over at ecat world;
The nuclear physicists I've studied with (as I am a PhD in Nuclear Physics myself) find cold fusion claims to be pretty ridiculous on the wholeSure you are. Dont most nooklear physmatists know how to educate themselves? Dont they teach you how to use GOOGLE at hogwarts?
he would try the link I posted where people are discussing real possibilities.
So then why then do you comment on things youre not familiar with? Why waste peoples time and space?he would try the link I posted where people are discussing real possibilities.
You do know that I skip most of your posts - I seem to have told you that on occasion.
I like to maximize my time reading stuff from people who post interesting things. The others...meh.
WHY THE HELL IS HE NOT PATENTING HIS STUFF AND REVEAL THE BIG SECRET?He has a patent. He is busy producing units and delivering units.
He has a patent. He is busy producing units and delivering units.
Believe it or not, Otto, the internet has lies on it. I mean where, as in what real-world scientific prestigious journal, is this paper published? I don't see it in any of the big names I'm familiar with.And physmatists know at least a little about sorting truth from lies yes? You didnt see because you didnt look.
Any guy who invents such an energy source is going to become the richest man on Earth in a year.
If his stuff worked he would have found a funder by nowIn rossis words:
. However, internal structure of the cables used in this setup were not exposed.
In the self-sustaining mode, they observed a periodic heating and cooling cycle that warrants further study.
And 99% of cases, when a "scientist" doesn't give proper informations, keeps all in misterious wraps, it's because he is just teasing the world.
oh yes otto, how could I have overlooked the very prestigious "New Energy Times." All the cool professors read that one.Ahaahaaa just click on the link, see the list of prestigious papers with hotlinks, and click on them to see copies of many papers from presitigious journals.
An excellent discussion of the recent demonstration and it's problems are on physicist Ethan Siegel's "Starts With A BANG" site:Not as excellent as this article in Forbes
"The E-Cat is back, and people are still falling for it!"
http://scienceblo...-for-it/
I think everyone will call BS on this.Well if you scan the thread you will see that many people think it is real. Perhaps english is not in your repertoire? Sind Sie sichtlos vielleicht?
Giuseppe Levi is in an institue for nuclear and subnuclear physisc (sounds good!)...BUT: his publication list is (just) 11 papers long,. Here's my 4 favorites:-Well coffee machinas use heat dont they? Is there some reason why you think a person who has analysed coffee machinas is unqualified to measure heat generated from rossis gadget, as well as being familiar with other ways of generating said heat?
- "Macchina da caffè di tipo perfezionato" (improved type coffee machine)
they directly cited Wikipedia for fuck's sake which in itself is probably enough to fail peer review
OK, here's where it gets bizarre:
I'm staring to look up the authors:
Giuseppe Levi is in an institue for nuclear and subnuclear physisc (sounds good!)...BUT: his publication list is (just) 11 papers long,. Here's my 4 favorites:
- "Macchina da caffè di tipo perfezionato" (improved type coffee machine)
- "Macchina di tipo perfezionato. " (improved type machine)
- "Procedimento per la produzione di una bevanda a base di caffè e macchina da caffè che attua il procedimento" (process for the production of a drink based on coffee and coffee machine which implements the method). "-antialias
Because every piece of modern technology has well-known scientific principles underneath it.
He is not professional at all.You mean like this?
He doesn't look professional.
He doesn't talk professional.
He doesn't ACT professional
He is not professional at all. He doesn't look professional. He doesn't talk professional. He doesn't ACT professional.This is not the professional argument based on matter of fact arguments - but the application of formal objections to subject of critique similar to medieval Malleus Maleficarum. But you ignored the fact, twenty years before Andrea Rossi a duo of professional physicists - Francesco Piantelli and Sergio Focardi claimed the same result (just with COP ~ 3 instead of COP ~ 6 of Andrea Rossi). Their experiments were described in details in official journal of Italian Academy of Science - and did happen? They were ignored as well, despite they were professionals. They were actually dismissed from the same reason, like the Andrea Rossi was dismissed: it brings the unwanted competition for the rest of physics. The cold fusion is direct competition for all researchers involved in alternative energy research.
The cold fusion is direct competition for all researchers involved in alternative energy research.
This isn't science. This is a magic show.I do agree - but Andrea Rossi is private subject, he isn't obliged to reveal absolutely anything about his know-how. If you want the serious demonstration of cold fusion, why don't you ask the mainstream physicists for replication of twenty years old experiments of Piantelli and Rossi? Why just the entrepreneur like Rossi (who never did publish anything about cold fusion) should be the only arbiter and guaranteer of cold fusion viability? Aren't we paying the mainstream scientists for the replications of their own findings from our taxes for years? Is such situation normal for you?
When Einstein was talking about physics, he KNEW what he was talking about, and you could spot it when he talked.
and so make himself the most famous and wealthy human being that ever lived, by just releasing his invention for other researchers to "develop" in efficiency and commercial robustnessHow? How the releasing the know-how for free could make you rich? Andrea Rossi even didn't got the patent for his technology in the USA (despite USA granted many similar patents of cold fusion like the the application of Zawodny from NASA during this time). The Americans apparently doesn't want to allow the commercialization of cold fusion for inventors outside of USA. How Andrea Rossi could become rich under such a situation, when everyone else patents the cold fusion technologies freely without single working device in accordance to silly first-to-file act? The strict guarding his know-how is his only chance, how he could get his investments returned at least a bit.
Cables are definitely thick enough to deliver several kW of power while apparent "measured" current would be much less if magnetic field that is being measured is partly shieldedThis is nonsense, as the experimental device has been calibrated just with using these wires without any hydrogen introduced during blind run. If "clamp ammeters" would be somehow insensitive to the actual current inside of reactor heaters, then this blind experiment would reveal it immediately. Of course, whole this technology can be still somehow faked, but why the hell Andrea Rossi should do it? He cannot sell any his device without explicit functionality warranty given anyway: he would be even jailed immediately for fraud, if he would even attempt for it.
Why doesn't he?
No more whining about patenting woes and commercial in confidence "difficulties".
It's a scam unless he immediately puts all those "competitors" you mention out of business asap
and prevent global warming/climate change catastrophe NOW
Of course, whole this technology can be still somehow faked, but why the hell Andrea Rossi should do it? He cannot sell any his device without explicit functionality warranty given anyway: he would be even jailed immediately for fraud, if he would even attempt for it.
He hasn't delivered a working model to anyone. Why is that?This is another widespread lie of cold fusion deniers - Andrea Rossi already delivered two 1 MW E-Cat units for USA and he's preparing the shipment of third one for Swedish company. The "functionality warranty" is the real thing at the case of E-Cat, as Rossi guarantees the COP > 6 for all his device shipped under full money return warranty. He wouldn't make a single dollar, if his device wouldn't work.
Who cares whats inside? Either it does what it says it does when you buy it , or it's fraud plain and simple. Scientific validation has no bearing on the market.
You buy something.
It does what the seller says or it doesn't.
If it does what is advertised we have a deal.
If it doesn't we have fraud.
There is no need for any peer review other than a jury.
Andrea Rossi already delivered two 1 MW E-Cat units for USA
The "functionality warranty" is the real thing at the case of E-Cat, as Rossi guarantees the COP > 6 for all his device shipped under full money return warranty.
He wouldn't make a single dollar, if his device wouldn't work.
Current flow was only measured by a clip over ammeter rather than a clip through ammeter.In this case during blind calibration the heater would get a much higher temperature than it corresponds the Lamber-Beer law. You didn't understand my point at all. After all, it has no meaning to dispute it. All doubters have twenty years of Piantelli/Rossi experiments with COP > 3 thoroughly described in peer-reviewed press. If they don't believe the cold fusion, they should start to prove it experimentally with attempt for replication of just these experiments. We aren't required to bother with Andrea Rossi E-Cat cryptic device at all: we have this technology described in details elsewhere at many places already.
LOL Otto, you really can't catch it.Yeah I prefer to let the evidence speak for itself and I dont much care where it comes from. Evidence is pretty overwhelming that LENR is real and that it is only a matter of time until someone like rossi or NASA or the US military makes it work.
I'll try to be more clear.
When Einstein was talking about physics, he KNEW what he was talking about, and you could spot it when he talked.
This guy talks bullshit all the time, that's all
But, you want to believe? Believe, I don't give a f*ck honestly. There are a lot of new age guys like you, so nothing strange
where the cheating is virtually impossible
Current flow was only measured by a clip over ammeter rather than a clip through ammeter.
There are a variety of methods that Rossi could have used to fake the results.
BTW Why all people in this thread are downvoted with open account (former lite voting troll) with striking exception of Q-Star account??
Yeah I prefer to let the evidence speak for itself and I dont much care where it comes from. Evidence is pretty overwhelming that LENR is real and that it is only a matter of time until someone like rossi or NASA or the US military makes it work.
But, you dont want to trust evidence? So dont. I don't give a f*ck honestly. There are a lot of old age geezers like you, so nothing strange.
There are a variety of methods that Rossi could have used to fake the results.Why just Rossi, Rossi, Rossi all the time? Couldn't Piantelli fake his results too for last twenty years? But I see - I know where the problem with Piantelli for all cold fusion deniers is - his experiments are easily replicable, so that every could ask, why they weren't attempted to replicate during last twenty years and who is even responsible for it. Such a questions could be never allowed, so that Rossi is much easier target from this perspective, because he demonstratively hides details of his technology.
We should never say never, the best we can say is "not yet" or "not soon".How long we could say it? The first successful experiments with cold fusion are 90 years old already and they were never attempted to replicate! Lets talk about open pluralistic ignorance, spiral of silence, negativism, dismissal and pathological skepticism and incompetence of mainstream physicists - nothing else. I'm not taking any other explanations and excuses here. If we won't absolutely clearly say, what actually happened there, then we will never learn from history and the same situation will repeat again and again for any other fundamental finding in future.
I know where the problem with Piantelli for all cold fusion deniers is - his experiments are easily replicable,,,,,,,,
Lets make things perfectly clear: every person, which doubts the Andrea Rossi without mention of Piantelli (the original founder of this type of cold fusion) is a CLEAR DENIER of cold fusion,
Then why aren't ya out replicating them?Didn't I explained it here many times? Nearly every physicist is somehow engaged in alternative research of alternative methods of energy production/transform/transport and storage, which would become useless and nonsensical at the case of cold fusion acceptation. It's clear economical motivation following from conflict of interest. These guys are interested about their jobs, grants and salaries - not about actual progress and they're supported in it with substantial portion of layman society, which is of the same opportunism and moral credibility.
They are not deniers of cold fusion.Yes, they are - the Rossi is substitute problem in this regard. The rationally thinking people cannot ask, what's problem with Andrea Rossi, when the twenty years old Piantelli, Focardi, Fleischmann and Pons etc. claim the very same results.
We should never say never, the best we can say is "not yet" or "not soon".How long we could say it? The first successful experiments with cold fusion are are 90 years old already and they were never attempted to replicate!
They were not replicated, because everyone who tried failed. And moved onNope, nope nope... ;-) You have ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE for it - so you're willfull liar and clear denier of cold fusion - despite you're realizing it or not. Nobody attempted to push the hydrogen ions into palladium anode under vacuum after Paneth & Peters in 1926, to publish it in scientific press the less, in peer-reviwed press the less. Despite these experiments are cheap and easy to replicate. This is a fact. Are you surprised? You shouldn't be.
Then why aren't ya out replicating them?Didn't I explained it here many times? Nearly every physicist is somehow engaged in alternative research of alternative methods of energy production/transform/transport and storage, which would become useless and nonsensical at the case of cold fusion acceptation.
IF IT IS SO EASY TO DO why aren't YA out there replicating the thing?Why I should do it? I'm not payed for it from public taxes. We are educating and paying the physicists for doing research from public taxes - yes, even for my own money. BTW I'm replicating the dense aether model of Oliver Lodge instead, I'm not obliged to save whole world at the moment, when mainstream physicists are drowning public money in "duh" science and solely useless research. After all, the cold fusion has been replicated successful by so many times with alternative physicists, that I couldn't contribute significantly to it. The problem isn't lack of successful replications of cold fusion - but their ignorance with mainstream physics.
Nobody attempted to push the hydrogen ions into palladium anode under vacuum after Paneth & Peters in 1926, to publish it in scientific press the less, in peer-reviwed press the less. Despite these experiments are cheap and easy to replicate. This is a fact. Are you surprised? You shouldn't be.
I'm possibly the only man on the world, who can see many such a things clearly in this moment.
It's not just about dense aether model, but about many other things, which you don't realize by now.
@ Q-Star:
"They were not replicated, because everyone who tried failed."
Wrong! The anomalous heat effect has been replicated at MIT, SRI, a group in Israel, Italy and Japan. Several Corporations have also been doing research in the field and reported positive results ie Mitsubishi and Toyota for instance. Educate yourself before making wild unsubstantiated statements.
People don't publish failures as a general rule, unless it is particularly noteworthy.This is unacceptable at the case of so important strategical and important research, as the cold fusion research is. Every experimental route should be documented clearly here - if nothing else, then just because every other approach is data fishing and unscientific by its very nature. The people hiding negative results aren't scientists in my eyes. But the actual problem is, these attempts for replication were never done and you're lying again in effort to cover the previous lie. I'm not buying your speculations about it at all.
But replicating a heating anomaly is not the same thing as performing "cold fusion"This is just a word-splitting. After all, at the case of fusion of hydrogen at nickel wasn't replicated the both for twenty years.
I'm not buying your speculations about it at all.
Do cold fusion, make more money than Bill GatesMr. Gates technology didn't threat the jobs, salaries and social credit of anybody in his time. But if you would attempt for cold fusion in the time of 60's (the last oil boom), you would be killed with FBI instead. Even Rossi by now, in the time of apparent energetically crisis must judge his steps very carefully - or his results would be closed in treasure for ever. The human society doesn't accept the findings, which "advance their time". i.e. threats the existence of powerfull people instead of helping it. Your problem is, you're naive troll, who has absolutely no idea, how the contemporary civilization is actually working.
Your problem is, you're naive troll, who has no idea how the contemporary world is actually working.
Defkalion no longer uses any chemical catalyst to break H2 gas into H1 because their "plasma ignition" method does it allIt doesn't use physical ignition only. And it doesn't use a plasma, but a radiowaves. You apparently don't know everything about it. You shouldn't rewrite the dumb posts from anonymous forums about it.
Defkalion no longer uses any chemical catalyst to break H2 gas into H1 because their "plasma ignition" method does it allIt doesn't use physical ignition only. And it doesn't use a plasma, but a radiowaves. You apparently don't know everything about it. You shouldn't rewrite the dumb posts from anonymous forums about it.
Why is it so hard to understand Rossi's secrecy? Every company in the world, including Kentucky Fried Chicken, won't divulge its secret recipe It's both proprietary and patentable, and no one but those who defy the status quo are lambasted for it.
It would be idiotic to throw the doors wide open to a lifetime of work so you can watch the wolves devour it.
Also, I do understand the secrecy behind the secret concoction. I would want international patent rights before I revealed something as Earth-shattering as this. Assuming it's real.
Also certain industrial manufacturing processes are never patented and kept as trade secrets for fear of competition. The recipe for Coca Cola is a good example."
You obviously don't have any experience in this area.
There seems to be some confusion here between trade secrets and patents. Perhaps Mr. Rossi feels the underlying technology is either unpatentable or cannot be protected well enough from patents; if so, then keeping it trade secret is the only means of protecting his substantial investment and providing a means for sole proprietorship going forward.
You do know that I skip most of your posts - I seem to have told you that on occasion.So then why then do you comment on things youre not familiar with? Why waste peoples time and space?
For the more ignorant people : Here is the CEO of National instruments, James Truchard in his keynote of 2012 confirming Cold fusion and Rossi (which he doesn't specify by name) watch it from 14:00
tinyurl.com/ox7mjwo
but that his behaviour is so damn laughably contradictory and stupid.
But this [physorg] article is a weird mixture of both (and effectively is neither a sceintific article nor something that is useful... It looks scientific but contains 'secret recipies'.
What it is is more akin to people in lab coats walking around in the background of dishwasher commercials.
Couldn't help but update this quote to be more fitting to this site.
The lack of neutrons is not evidence that your eyes are lying to you.
much higher if you consider this to be more of an orange color. 800K for this size reactor would be over 2800W of output with emissivity of 1, 1175W even if you take e down to 0.3."
-Now how can you get that sort of power to this thing through a wall outlet and conventional power cord?
I'm on a waiting list of people who want to buy the E-Cat. Rossi struggled for years to finance his research, and borrowed against his own house, which is unlikely a ploy. By reserving a machine, I have "put up", therefore you, fmfBrestel, can shut up.
WHY HAS NO ONE DONE IT? NOT ONE PERSON?THEY_HAVE. Many times.
replicating a heating anomaly is not the same thing as performing "cold fusion"LENR is not cold fusion.
Any one of these can draw 2kW easilyAnd how big would the wire have to be to supply the current necessary to make the cylinder in the pic above glow white-hot? Assuming its just not shooped that is.
But the lack of gammas is. If, for some reason, this fusion is miraculously neutron-lessIts not neutron-less
it should still produce copious amounts of gammasIn widom-larsen, the reaction provides its own gamma shielding
Your eyes can easily deceive you-And when you refuse to use them to investigate evidence, you are deceiving yourself.
waiting list. heh. been waiting a while? get used to it. So how much did you have to pay to reserve your e-cat?You can indeed pre-order an ecat
You can indeed pre-order an ecat
http://ecat.com/e...-an-ecat
-See nothing is impossible.
You bring nothing to the table in this or any discussion. You only uses non peer reviewed, highly opinionated sourcesBut the widom-larsen list I linked for instance is full of peer-reviewed papers, yes?
and choose to ignore facts despite being proven wrong in every possible way by multiple usersIm sorry youll have to be a bit more specific.
Each post you make is exceedingly more childish than the last and proves nothing. I hope you are trolling this forum as I find it hard to believe a human being out there exists that is as blunt and illogical as youNaw youre just upset because you tend to post crap and I tend to expose crap-posters. And I will not stop.
I think everyone will call BS on thisWhat is the purpose of this post? Why would you think that EVERYONE would call BS on such a contentious issue? Again sorry but its worthless crap. Just like zero growth requires zero births. Was that silly or what?
Problem is, he wants to use scientific validation for marketing purposes while withholding facts, which simply should not be allowedBut it is done all the time in product development. And he was as factual as he needed to be to satisfy the 3rd party investigators.
And how big would the wire have to be to supply the current necessary to make the cylinder in the pic above glow white-hot? Assuming its just not shooped that is.
Assuming Italy has 230V
He's not telling the truthAndrea Rossi is just claiming COP = 6. The Piantelli is claiming the COP = 3 with the same nickel - hydrogen system for twenty years. Piantelli documented his experiments thoroughly and he published them in peer-reviewed press. Do you believe him instead? If yes, why not Rossi? If not, what's your objection against Piantelli?
Erm. It gets better:
Torbjörn Hartman...he's a friggin' vet.
Rossi stated that "these plants consume only 1 gram of Nickel for every 23 gigawatt-hours of heat they produce."This is just a blind estimation based on cold fusion mechanism involving strong nuclear force. The LENR based on weak nuclear force could bring only megawatt-hours per gram of Nickel, which is still very interesting option for home users, but way less interesting for central producers and distributors of energy.
Time for Rossi to walk the walkOh esai are you going to bring him down all by yourself? How brave.
Time for Rossi to walk the walkOh esai are you going to bring him down all by yourself? How brave.
"Your pre-order has been accepted. By the way: so far we received about 50,000 pre-orders and counting, which is not bad, for a product that has still to be described in details. Our 10,000 target has been burnt rapidly.' -rossi January 23, 2012
-Maybe if you are tall enough or loud enough you will stand out in line.
Ever hear the term 'egomaniac with an inferiority complex'? I bet you think you are the only one ahaahaaaa
Something as important as this requires complete truthfulness.So why scientists aren't replicating it again and again? If the cold fusion is so important, why everyone waits just for Rossi with his garage equipment and zero investments (he sold his house for doing research of cold fusion)?
Anyone making such claims that is hiding what is going on, given the state of this world, is the one exercising unmoral behavior.At first, Rossi doesn't own his company anymore - so he is obliged to keep secrecy for to protect the investments of its owners in the same way, like every other employee of Leonardo Corp (and every employee of every other private company on the world). Ask the owners for details, not Rossi. BTW Every research of breakthrough technology in history was secret. Do you think, that the development of nuclear weapons would be more moral, if it would be publicly open? Do you think, that the research of viruses or GMO or cancer cure is open for everyone, until the researchers aren't willing to publish the final results? Which planet are you coming from?
Even nuclear power, something understood and explained by physics that actually works, that promised us unlimited energy, did not pan out as promisedOf course, from reasons which are easy to foresee. The nuclear fission releases deadly radiation and it leaves the deadly waste and uranium reserves are limited and environmentally unfriendly to mine. What did you expect? Cold fusion has just these disadvantages removed. And what the killing of animals for food has to do with it? With sufficient fusion energy we could fabricate all food in plants and leave the surface of Earth free in virgin state for recreational purposes.
When you have made enough mistakes and been through enough pain, if you live that long, you will understand that the statement you made above only reflects your view of yourself and others. If that person is those things you say, then we all are. More likely is that we are not our actions and the attempt to define us human animals as actions is a lie. The reason we do and say what we do that is wrong and hurtful is that we are in the presence of one or more lies. The problem is the lie. Please don't make more. You can all out the improper words and actions all you want, but please try to state it truthfully if you really want to do the right thing.
Of course, from reasons which are easy to foresee.
Exactly. We can't foresee anything with someone hiding the facts and lying to us.
And what the killing of animals for food has to do with it?
Killing animals and eating them is not for food when plant based food is also available. That is killing animals for enjoyment. One may be necessary and the other is an excuse to cause needless harm for personal enjoyment. Having plenty of energy does not address what it may be used for. Given the current state of the worls and the choices made it is probably just fuel for the fire at this point.
I find it interesting that after these many years, skeptics are as ferocious as ever and here is another astounding claim of excess heat. These claims can't be all wrong; the odd just don't work; not given the scientists involved or the quality of their work. I've read "Too Hot to Handle" and lost interest in CF after that. Now, I really wonder if these guys have really hit it out of the ball park.The greater the number of incidents where claims are false, the higher the probability of subsequent identical claims also being false. At some point the probability becomes too vanishingly small for most people. WhatIF games are fun, but outcomes have to be separated from the improbable unless the goal is a work of fiction
What will happen to the solar and wind industry if Rossi did knock it out of the ball park? Oil and gas companies will have to lay off millionsThe fossil fuel lobby has been a real opponent of cold fusion before twenty years, but now just the scientists working in alternative areas of research of energy production/conversion/transport and storage are the main culprit.
The greater the number of incidents where claims are false, the higher the probability of subsequent identical claims also being false.Yep, this effect is known in social psychology under the names pluralistic ignorance and spiral of silence effects. The physicists usually have contempt for social sciences, but sometimes they cold really learn from it. After all, many theories like the string theory are about sociology more than about physic
The fact that this snake-oil horsecrap is the third article down and full of CF yes-men trying to defend it is really, really disappointing to meYou didn't prove it's a crap. The cold fusion has a broad experimental background of many serious publications. The simple labeling it a "crap" from some anonymous hater just demonstrates, how the pluralistic ignorance works.
I think there are a lot of religionists out there who are seeing their relevance erodedJust bellow this article? You probably missed the topic. I do appreciate the PhysOrg, he doesn't censor the information and discussions in recent time. Is this freedom an evidence of anti-science? Or rather the proponents of so-called "true science" have problem with free access of publics to informations?
You, sir, are merely a troll who craves negative attentionHi noob.
Yes Otto, I believe I am the only one that want to buy one of these.Well you believe this because youre an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. I think I said this already.
What a stupid thing to say
LOL! I think my 70 years with at least it's share of mistakes and pain more than qualifies my observations and opinions on human nature and my 25 years on the internet qualifies me to spot attention seeking trollsI heard billy graham say this very thing once. Alas science has exposed his willful ignorance. Wisdom is optional; senility is mandatory.
So does anybody know a different website where I can get decent science news? ..snake-oil horsecrapHave you tried this one?
Free speech does come at a price. The real difficulty for me comes with the borderline issues.You see, Einstein had absolutely no problem with this difficulty at all:
I'd rather be an optimist and a fool than a pessimist and right.So, what could we lose, if it turns out, that the cold fusion simply doesn't work? Absolutely nothing, in the same way, like at the case of negative results of research of gravitational waves or string theory. We will simply learn, such a ways aren't feasible. But with compare to the dull research of useless mainstream theories, at the case of cold fusion validity we could achieve a huge reward. For me it's a win-win strategy.
This creates a lot of suspicion, and I wonder why the scientists involved did not insist on more control.
All these "coincidences" are simply too many to be coincidences.For me the coincidence is, nobody wants to replicate the simple cheap experiments of Piantelli and Focardi, wheres everyone is trying to doubt the cryptic experiments of Andrea Rossi. If the mainstream scientists are in doubt about cold fusion of hydrogen at nickel, why the hell didn't check it itself? I'd welcome every publication about it presented in peer-reviewed mainstream press is rigorous way. But current situation is way too much similar to the stance of opponents of Galileo, who just refused to look into his telescope not from fear, they would blame itself and they would see anything - but from the exactly the opposite reason.
We are not our actions.
So set up a web site - solicit $5 or more from each of those millions of others - and you got your funding
So set up a web site - solicit $5 or more from each of those millions of others - and you got your funding
Isn't kickstarter such a site? Why doesn't any of these mythical 'snubbed' scientists go there?
... electric measurement distortion. Cables are definitely thick enough to deliver
several kW of power while apparent "measured" current would be much less if magnetic field that is being measured is partly shielded. Input power underestimated - "unexplained energy" appears... Rossi did it again!
Tele: "You and I and millions of others know that this is not the only threatening research that goes unfunded."
So set up a web site - solicit $5 or more from each of those millions of others - and you got your funding. Complete the research - and you become the richest dude in the world - and then you can fund all of that research for us. In other words - put your money where your mouth is - no it is easier to spend your day spreading conspiracy theories on the internet.
Oh, I see, there's a conspiracy of people who spread conspiracy theories on the internet.
I'm going with the idea that Rossi's device is to good to be trueWhy do you think so? Piantelli and Focardi claimed the COP > 3 before twenty years already - so why Rossi couldn't get some progress during this time and to claim the COP ~ 6. The only problem is, nobody did seriously test the Piantelli finding from this time (with exception of Cellani and few nonmainstream physicists). The mainstream physics simply avoids all replications. For example, before three years we could read about cold fusion evidence during co-deposition of Palladium in trivial arrangement, which was claimed to be quite reproducible. Did someone repeated it during from this time? Nope, nobody bothered with it.
If scientists have already developed this new, limitless energy source - why have they (and you) not put their money ... and put it into productionIt's like to say, I'll will not believe in general relativity until I cannot buy a working product, which is using it. The application of double standards to the subject of doubt belongs into signs of pathological skepticism. Everyone knows, there is long way from observation of phenomena to its commercialization - so you shouldn't ask for more evidence, than you can get at the case of another physical findings. I just want to see a peer-reviewed attempts for replications - until I cannot read about it in Nature or Science, then the joker resides on the side of mainstream physicists, not researched phenomena. Because until we will not attempt for replication at all, we cannot observe any effect - no matter how well it's actually running.
Steorn energy is still making claims about their orbo thingy.This is the same story, again and again. Steorn effect is routinely replicated at YouTube. Why no attempts for replications are published in peer-reviewed journal, after then? Aren't we paying scientists enough for it? I just want to read in Nature journal, that the device was constructed in accordance to Steorn kit and it doesn't run. Until I cannot read about it, it just means, nobody of scientists has attempted for it. Work, finish, publish. No publication means, no work has been done about it. Is it so difficult to understand it?
Einstein was not claiming to have developed a new energy source that was going to radically alter the economies of the worldBut Piantelli didn't claim it too. It were different people who did it. Piantelli just published heat effects, no less no more. No apples and oranges are there. You can replace the Einstein with nuclear fission, if you want. Just after six years we got the first nuclear bomb, which is complex and expensive technology. Just compare it with speed of replication of trivial cold fusion experiments - even after twenty years we have none published in peer-reviewed journal. Replications, replications, replications. I know exactly what I'm asking and why I'm asking it. Just the published attempt for replication is what distinguishes the inquisitive skeptic from negativist denier.
If you believe that Steorn is legitimate - you are a bigger head banger than I ever imagined.Of course I do, the Yildiz motor and MEG work on the same principle - it's quite evident, that the magnetic viscosity is behind all these technologies. But this is different story, than the cold fusion (of course, its dismissal without further investigation is the same shame for mainstream physics, like the case of cold fusion). You even cannot imagine the complete depth of shit, in which the mainstream physics resides by now. It denies whole century of alternative research.
Steorn energy is still making claims about their orbo thingy.This is the same story, again and again. http://www.youtub...rt6p_dyY at YouTube. Why no attempts for replications are published in peer-reviewed journal, after then? Aren't we paying scientists enough for it?
Lets make things clear: until there is at least theoretical possibility that the cold fusion works, we should research it, because we can only profit from it as a whole. And I'm pretty sure, that at least one of five thousands of publications published at http://lenr-canr.org works. If we can research the useless Higgs boson and/or gravitational waves, why not just the effect, which can bring the progress? The only people who can dismiss such an attitude are those, who would appear like ignorant idiots at the case of its success, because they denied the cold fusion for whole century.
Lets make things clear: until there is at least theoretical possibility that the cold fusion works, we should research it
natello: "Lets make things clear: until there is at least theoretical possibility that the cold fusion works, we should research it"
I don't think anyone is trying to tell Rossi what he can and cannot study - just asking him to support the claims he makes - which so far he has not - and is a very reasonable request. It is really not that complex.
He said that they plan to have a live webcam running during the duration of the pending 6-month continuous run test of the Hot-Cat.
Rossi does not really have such a discovery. Either way - he is not a very nice personThis is not a scientific argument neither. Maybe he is just the right person for such way of breakthrough. It's not job for conformists and down-to-earth personalities. Actually we all need him, the actual progress of cold fusion research driven with scientists only for twenty - seventy years wasn't satisfactory for me.
Will Rossi be right or wrong, it will be a great humor book!
Can we set a date by which time he either has a commercially available product or we declare this a fraud?Of course not, this is a sociological criterion, not the physical one. In science we don't use the commercialization of effect, artifact or phenomena as the meaningful criterion of existence at all. If you would allow such a criterion, then I would insist instead, that all research must have some practical application in real time, or it would be not only useless, but de-facto fraud. So when you call for such a criterion at the case of Rossi and you're proponent of useless basic research at the same moment, then you're residing in deep hypocrisy. The same applies to another sociological and economical criterions of physical reality.
Can we set a date by which time he either has a commercially available product or we declare this a fraud?
How many years took Edison to build a stupid light bulb?
Tesla was first to invent radio. Not Marconi. Gustave Whitehead, a German-born inventor flew two years before the Wright brothers, who were known for their self-promotion
Can we set a date by which time he either has a commercially available product or we declare this a fraud?
How many years took Edison to build a stupid light bulb? How many years took Wright brothers from the first sketches to the Flyer? And about Marconi, do you think he invented radio in a day? I will believe Rossi when he will show a self running off the grid apparatus capable to run, start and stop at will, and I will believe that Rossi is a scammer when somebody will sue him (and win) for a not working e-cat.
At least he didn't organize a show every half year at which he just showed an empty bulbRossi actually doesn't organize any public shows from public demo in January 2011 - you know, the light bulb know-how cannot be stolen so easily like the composition of his catalyst. He must sell his know-how in very clever way, because it would be otherwise stolen and exploited under different label. Don't forget, he even hasn't USA patent (while Zawodny from NASA got it immediately and he published exactly the same technology).
The attacks on "cold fusion" here only demonstrate that "science" is lies and those who protect "science" are defenders of patent liesYep. IMO such a public attitude is not normal at all. What could we lost if Rossi will be proven wrong? We are losing a much larger amount of money in research of non-existing strings, gravitational waves, etc - not to say about fossil fuel wars and environmental consequences of fossil fuel burning.
When Rossi will be ready, and willing to, give a public demonstration of his work, you'll know.
@kochevnik: If you're not just trolling I beat you're training for the Guinnes's book of record title "the most ignorant man"If by that you mean I'm not making myself an easy mark for a slimy Italian grease-ball con-artist then I plead guilty
Isn't that what the article was about? He invited a couple of people to witness his work and they write about it.This is indeed NOT a public demonstration. The number of commies who are expecting, that Rossi should be forced to reveal his private know-how (while the scientists payed from public money are fucking its development) is striking.
that he wanted money for demonstrations in the pastNope, he didn't - it's a lie.
his track record is fraudulent and a no-show in all businessesLook, the mainstream science has a one hundred years of track record of ignorance if not open dismissal of the cold fusion research. If you want to find how the E-Cat is working, just ask the Piantelli, who published the COP ~ 3 before twenty years. Rossi is as private company as DARPA, Lockheed or Boston Dynamics (and he even has no governmental contracts). He is not obliged to publish absolutely anything about his research.
Color me crazy, but if anyone were to perpetrate any ONE of these in science my fraud-o-meter would meltMy fraud-o-meter is already melted in the light of twenty years standing cold fusion suppression at MIT. The mainstream science is asking for public money, whereas it inhibits the work on publicly useful projects for years. It openly embezzles the public money in this way with compare to Rossi, who never asked the tax payers for anything.
As I just wrote before, don't came boring us with your unasked opinions.
And please stop this stupid downrate-everyone game.
You know damn well that you ALSO have voted down that which was truthful,
@kochevnik: Can you read at last your own posts? I was answering to your ludicrous statement that Tesla invented the radio (he doesn't ever tried to, he spent many years trying to transmit energy, not signals!)The U.S. Supreme Court upheld Tesla's radio patent number 645,576, you greaseball
Sure, this device is fraudIt indeed isn't - this device has its own independent replications already..
We can just ask, why nobody from mainstream physics didn't attempted to replicate it -
if it could be achieved reliably.
Since no one of mainstream physicists is attempting for it - this is indeed a difference. http://e-catsite....funding/ - or the cold fusion will not start at all, if the concentration of hydrogen in metal is too low - or it will destroy the catalyst with excessive heat, if the content of hydrogen in metal rises too high.
@kochevnik: Can you read at last your own posts? I was answering to your ludicrous statement that Tesla invented the radio (he doesn't ever tried to, he spent many years trying to transmit energy, not signals!)The U.S. Supreme Court upheld Tesla's radio patent number 645,576, you greaseball
This reminds me of "The Turk", a chess playing machine that was later revealed to be a hoax. Any time you can't look inside the box, it raises suspicion. If Rossi has a trade secret, he should patent it, so others can study it.
If Rossi has a trade secret, he should patent it, so others can study it.This is not the purpose of patents at all. After all, if you believe so, why not to check the cold fusion patent of Zawodny from NASA? You can study if as long as you wish...;-) BTW Rossi asked for patent in the USA but the patent wasn't granted, because Rossi is not USA citizen - despite Rossi has a device for demonstration, whereas Zawodny not. Or rather just because of it. I hope, it will give you insight, what the patents are really about.
Not saying the experiment WAS fabricated, but IF it was, then likely this is how it was doneJeez why to fabricate it in this way? Even if these guys would invent all numbers in their study from scratch, nobody has a chance to check it. But Piantelli published essentially the same numbers, just at much lower temperatures and before twenty years in peer-reviewed journal. Why nobody is trying to doubt it? I see, because it would be forced to attempt for replication, which is something, which the mainstream physicists avoid in the same way, like the looking into telescope of Galileo before fife hundreds years. Rossi is therefore a much easier target for cold fusion deniers, because he simply cannot be replicated.
stuff that could have been figured out by a 5 second google ..(i.e. lazy people)...or those who use hypocritical standards (e.g. by demanding proofLets see... in the last few days you said:
Torbjörn Hartman...he's a friggin' vetNo hes not.
ALL the authors and co-authors have specialties relevant to the subject...And I'm wondering why that isn't the case hereThey do.
as long as you keep the juice running, easilyNot enough to melt steel.
this arxiv article is a weird mixture of both (and effectively is neither a sceintific article nor something that is useful for patenting)You would have to actually read it to know this.
But the lack of gammas isPer widom-larsen, no its not.
You keep making statements about 'truth' and 'truthfulness' but never back it up with anythingYou havent sourced your info. You refuse to visit links and educate yourself. You repeat disproven info.
Rossi seems confident enough to have people look at it - so it must be done (i.e. WORKING), right? So how much longer do YOU think we should wait? A year? Two? Ten?You dont want to wait? You want to stop talking about it? What is preventing you from doing these things?
Just pick a date already - any date will do. Then we can just stop talking about CF alltogether on this site and simply wait till that date rolls around
Using a clamp meter on a cable which might be multicore is one such source of errorThe heater cables aren't multicore, as they've porcelain insulator rings for to withstand high temperatures.
I'm thinking like slow motion thermite, with some copper based mix instead of aluminumIn the article title the energy density achieved was at least 10 times higher than any conventional energy source, i.e including termite..
when foreign scientists were allowed to see his work, was the truth revealedMany other scientists did observe thermal effects under quite different circumstances too. I would be very suspicious collective delusion. But some effects cannot be faked so easily - here you can see the nuclear reaction in thermocamera. Each spark is the individual fusion (this observation was never attempted to replicate, because it represents too apparent evidence of cold fusion too).
You denied truth, then said it is relative as an excuse to dismiss the importance of the truth itself lying about what other people are.
When someone says the truth is important, then what they say is most important because it's the truth.
I advise people to look up "N-Rays". A history of a brilliant french physicist who believed his work to such an extent that he published about a non-existent phenomenon.From wiki:
He had perceived changes in the brightness of an electric spark in a spark gap placed in an X-ray beam which he photographed, and he later attributed to the novel form of radiation, naming this the N-rays for the University of NancyIt looks like quite real effect for me: the X-rays are making air conductive, which may indeed affect the size or even shape of sparks at the case of soft voltage source with high internal impedance.
I advise people to look up "N-Rays". A history of a brilliant french physicist who believed his work to such an extent that he published about a non-existent phenomenon.From http://en.wikiped...History:He had perceived changes in the brightness of an electric spark in a spark gap placed in an X-ray beam which he photographed, and he later attributed to the novel form of radiation, naming this the N-rays for the University of NancyIt looks like quite real effect for me: the X-rays are making air conductive, which may indeed affect the size or even shape of sparks at the case of soft voltage source with high internal impedance.
What you call crazy is that which you can't seem to reason with.
Yes it invalidated your greaseball patents so you had to fall back on burying toxic industrial waste in family residences and looking the other way while half of Italy was molested by your Vatican pederasts@kochevnik: Can you read at last your own posts? I was answering to your ludicrous statement that Tesla invented the radio (he doesn't ever tried to, he spent many years trying to transmit energy, not signals!)The U.S. Supreme Court upheld Tesla's radio patent number 645,576, you greaseball
Exactly, read the Tesla's patent title: "System of transmission of electrical energy"! BTW, the patent was granted in 1900, Marconi's patent in 1897! You scored more!!!
I believe in this invention, and I'm going to get an E-Cat as soon as it's available. Why is it so hard to understand Rossi's secrecy? Every company in the world, including Kentucky Fried Chicken, won't divulge its secret recipe It's both proprietary and patentable, and no one but those who defy the status quo are lambasted for it.
how you jump from Rossi's decision not to patent as proof of fraud recuses you from judgement- about anythingRossi asked for patent in USA repetitively, but his patent application wasn't granted, because he is an USA citizen and the USA government doesn't want to give such a great business potential to persons outside of USA.
YOU CAN'T SAY OR TYPE THESE THINGS THAT YOU DO WITHOUT LIFE!!!!Life invented god and god is a lie because life went into the desert and dug around for 100 years and found only things which convinced life that those bible stories never happened.
Did you like if I came here posting about soccer or baroque music? So, please, choose a better forum for your delirious ramblings. Or take a walk to the nearest asylum. They'll take care of you.
I don't know about Dave, but for me? Soccer, not so much,,,, but I would much prefer discussing baroque music to, say, truth with a person who has always refused to define this thing he is obsessed with.
He wonders why no one wants to talk about truth with him. I suggest it's because after being asked a nonillion times what his definition of truth is, he has nonillion times refused to give one.
The point? He is a troll who measures his worth by the number of times he can goad someone into responding to him. (Another self evident truth.)
@italba Most important, the Tesla patent was about transmitting ENERGY, the Marconi's one about SIGNALS....I reported your racist insults to moderators.LOL so now who have the wrong people flying airplanes two years too late, and your greaseball Marconi claiming invention of the radio because he filed the papers being a glorified clerk, instead as Tesla being too preoccupied inventing half the things you now use today. Moreover SIGNALS are transmitted using ENERGY, you crazy Italian. And now you claim Italians are a RACE. Sorry Mexicans claim they are a race. Mexican strategy is all you have since your glorious empire was overrun with stupid xtian fanatics in 325AD and all your country has now are second-rate fraudsters a dollar short and two weeks late. Don't blame yourself. It is the Italian climate. Nobody can develop an unbreakable constitution when they simply can raise their hands and pick lunch off a tree
The are lessons in life more painful than deathHow would you know? Have you ever died? Your statement is not true.
Rossi is not behaving honestly and truthfully...scams like thisYou have no way of knowing this. You havent even examined the existing evidence, which those who have done so will tell you is inconclusive. Your declaration is therefore a falsehood ie a lie.
I talk for one hour and present my sideDavid, you are a preacher and as such, you crave a pulpit. You havent mentioned it in this thread but prople do know that you are a religionist and that your version of 'truth' is derived in your belief in some book god or other.
This article is NOT a philosophical study about truth,
@all: Sorry for the long post(s), but he deserved it.
@DavidW: You keep spitting out your home-baked philosophy and try to hide it behind the fig leaf of a little phrase about Rossi. What a hypocrite! And what is the game you propose? To stay an hour listening to you without vomiting??? Nobody could tolerate that!
All of the setups I can find reference to are very small, and it requires extremely sensitive calorimeters to measure the output (because both the output and input are so small).It's not true, the cold fusion effects usually exceed ten percents of input energy. At the moment, when cold fusion starts, it runs in well pronounced way.
Additionally, they all seem to require exotic input materials, such a deuterium, laboratory pure hydrogen, SR 707 alloy, laboratory pure nickel in nano powder form, etc.Such a materials are used in chemical labs routinely, for example the Raney nickel saturated with hydrogen is used in tons for vegetable oil hydrogenation. Andrea Rossi originally studied the industrial hydrogenations, which is why he's close to cold fusion research by now. IMO E-Cat is based on Raney nickel, prepared just with small modification. BTW Who is Dr Storm and why should be care about his opinion?
Every serious review of their work I can find is negative.Because every serious nuclear physicist claimed the cold fusion is impossible for twenty years - so why should be accept some explanation of it by now? It's social and psychological, not factual stuff. This doesn't mean, I'm taking W-L theory very seriously too - it has few useful points (Mossbauer lattice effects, for example) - but it still uses way too much ad-hoced concepts (ultra-heavy electrons, ultra-slow neutrons: what is it supposed to be?!) IMO the cold fusion has a much more natural explanation based on well known effects, which just weren't considered with mainstream physics so far.
It's not true, the cold fusion effects usually exceed ten percents of input energy. At the moment, when cold fusion starts, it runs in well pronounced way
BTW Who is Dr Storm
Because every serious nuclear physicist claimed the cold fusion is impossible for twenty years - so why should be accept some explanation of it by now?
When you get all the pro-cold fusion people saying that Widom is wrongUh except for the NASA guys and the guys who granted their patents based on WL, and of course widom and larsen, and all of those peer reviewers of their papers per one of MY links above to one of MY sites. Its nice to see someone here who is interested in doing a little research anyway.
If you start with a small input, 1000% gain is still a small output.It's just a matter of scale, after then. The cold fusion isn't supposed to run inside of test tubes only for ever.
If you can find anyone aside from the Rossi who claims large power input/outputA. Rossi is claiming COP > 6, but Piantelli & Focardi published the COP ~ 3 before twenty years already. From this perspective the progress of Rossi is not so substantial - it's rather evolution than the revolution. But the COP = 3 is significant milestone with respect to practical feasibility and utilization of this process at the industrial scale, because the efficiency of conversion of heat into electricity is about 33%. So until you have lower COP than 4 - 5, then your process is not economically feasible when you're forced to use the electricity for input heating. So that Rossi is experimenting outside of test tubes simply because he's finally allowed to do so.
WL is a working theory without much evidence at present.. Dr Storms is an expert who supports the field of cold fusion, and laid out a very good explaination of why Widom was wrong on one of the sitesW-L theory allegedly predicts the mass spectrum of radioisotopes formed during transmutations with high degree of accuracy. Due the complexity of such spectrum the random coincidence would be quite improbable here. But I didn't reviewed the W-L theory personally, so it's always a bit dangerous to argue with mediated interpretations without their deeper understanding. Anyway, if W-L theory would help to raise the interest of mainstream scientists about cold fusion, it would be more than enough for me. What I'm still lacking there is the systematical research presented in peer-reviewed journals regularly. We need to give the cold fusion/LENR the status of official nuclear science.
But I didn't reviewed the W-L theory personally?? Why the hell not? I thought you were interested in these things. This is at present the most plausible explanation and the one that NASA bases their patents on.
Well, so far you have only provided personal insults and actually nothing to the actual topic.
?? Why the hell not? I thought you were interested in these things.
Heres another forbes article (not MINE) which supports the 3rd party study
I've seen two criticisms of widom from experts in the field who point out two different show-stoppers for the widom theory. I don't know if they are right, but their explanations sounded very logicalI do consider the W-L theory as a Ptolemy epicycle model of cold fusion. It gives surprisingly exact quantitative predictions, but its qualitative premises are strongly adhoced, fitted to the results expected and as such nonsensical (ultra-heavy electrons, ultra-slow neutrons). We never observed epicycles elsewhere in nature in the same way, like we never observed ultraheavy electrons. The lack of working analogies should serve as a first warning for us, because our world is scale invariant and everything should have a better or worse working analogy somewhere else.
I do consider the W-L theory as a Ptolemy epicycle model of cold fusion.
about the pulsing they describe above
I don't have enough knowledge of nuclear chemistry to even try to evaluate it on my own
...because that's exactly what it looks like if you try that out on a stove with and without built in heat protectionUh how do you melt steel on a stove?
The other reason to think widom isn't right is because nobody is having consistent success yetPeople have had consistent success with LENR as has been indicated many times above.
Look, Otto, one thing I did learn from reading through all your references and cross-referencing them with other sites, is that the original story here, about this 3rd party study, wasn't very scientificThat is an opinion, not a fact. According to the forbes author, it is an erroneous opinion which he refutes.
It seems obvious that you can't just point an infrared thermometer at it to figure out how much energy it is creatingWithout reviewing the paper, I can say that the EXPERTS who were qualified to do the tests, used methods adequate in their estimation to guage the performance. Forbes EXPLAINS this.
The kind of reading they took only measures the heat directly radiated towards the sensor. Then you have to extrapolate the rest of the sphereAnd how do you know this is what they did??
Low-energy neutrons get absorbed quite easily by anything. This starts a cascade of creating unstable isotopes which beta decay. During the beta decay, gamma ray photons are releasedThe unstable isotopes would produce all forms of radiation thinkable. After all, the activation of metals with slow neutrons is nothing new - and the metals are always getting quite radioactive during this.
The unstable isotopes would produce all forms of radiation thinkableIm guessing that beta decay is well-understood?
After all, the activation of metals with slow neutrons is nothing new - and the metals are always getting quite radioactive during thisI thought you said that slow neutrons and heavy electrons were nonsensical -?
Im guessing that beta decay is well-understoodYes and it emanates the beta rays.
heavy electrons were nonsensicalSuch a heavy electrons were never observed in nickel. W-L theory considers heavy "surface plasmon polariton" (SPP) electrons, which have nothing to do with heavy fermion materials. BTW Didn't you "forget" to address my remark about radioactivity?
Uh how do you melt steel on a stove?
It's simple physics, reallyWell simple physics can contain a lot of variables.
emotionally attached to the Waton paper?The what?
Why does that paper HAVE to be the way cold fusion works?Who says it does...whatever it is?
When did Forbes become an expert on physics?Why do you think 'forbes' is claiming expertise?
It's obvious they didn't know enough to ask the right questions, so they just reported it as it was given to them.No its not. You should read them first before commenting I think.
Above you state that people are able to produce cold fusion consistently. Provide an example pleaseMany examples farther up in the thread. Try reading it before commenting.
All of the cold fusion advocacy sites say that nobody has been able to get it work very often, if at allUh have you read all of them? Some of them?
Powdered nickel is very dangerous, especially under high heat, since it is explosiveSo is thermite. So what?
not in cars or homesPetrol makes nice bombs. Electricity can kill. Youre an idiot.
Powdered nickel is very dangerous, especially under high heat, since it is explosive.Nickel is not explosive, it's only pyrophoric. BTW The amount of nickel in 500 W reactor is very low, some 30g or so. The lithium or hydrogen powered car is way more dangerous: lithium is way more pyrophoric, hydrogen mixture with air is explosive - and the average lithium or hydrogen powered car contains many kilos of them..
kochevnik
May 23, 2013