You have to remember these were analog systems.
Did I forget the words "sum and"?Naa, you missed the name of the phenomenon. You was tying to give a lesson on "ghost images". And you got most of it wrong. The real engineers at NASA and ones that work with radio have know about the thing since heterdyning radios have been invented in the early 1900's. Radio TECHNICIANS like you were, hear about it, but don't really work with it, their bosses the real ENGINEERS do the deep thinking on that for them. The "sum" product is usually the one filtered out and the other passed to the amplifier. The engineers who built the Apollo would have know what "ghost image" frequencies to stay away from when picking out an IF frequency for their equipments.
Did it ruin your day? Make it?Naa, just you being you, non different today.
I am glad to have such an impression on the folks.So you are glad to play the fool? You like the way you look with that silly looking pointy cap (with the stars and moons on him) on your head?
"Uh huh, and how would a digital system behave differently?"Do you write stuffs to intentionally show you don't really know what you are taking about? Cher, it does not have anything to with digital/analog. It is the nature of AM or SSB radios. The Apollo up and down links were probably FM where this does not come into effect.
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It is in the frequency synthesis. With analog, one would slew through the frequencies, in digital you step through them. With old home analog sets, one could set the dial by finding where the dials of others were set, by taking the whine down to zero beats, aligning it with the frequency of the other oscillator. It can sound like a Theremin. The military had theirs safely shielded.
Apparently not good enough for those Apollo quiescent conditions.Maybe they should have come to your lectures where you taught 33,000 real engineers everything they missed in school.
I knew I should not have posted, because Auntie Ego would pounce on it, and find semantic differences, then make a big deal out of itYeah, that is what you always say when you get caught making up stuffs.
Sorry. Auntie Ego, but all that was done last century by me, before you were hatched.I would not brag about that Cher. It seems I learned a lot more about it than you never did.
"So why wouldn't they hear that same interference on the Earth side?"Cher, you are one of the most stupid peoples who ever put silly stuffs up on the physorg, and that ain't no little feat. You want to rethink that? Or double down again?
because of the loud background from zillions rf sources on Earth, which are blocked by the Moon.
That is why it would make such a good place for a radio antenna, on the back side.Hooyeei if you keep saying stuffs like this you are going to get peoples thinking you are the Ira-Sock-Puppet-Skippy I use to make my self look good.
Ira, it seems you learned enough memorizing stuff, but are not familiar with it sufficiently.Then why are you getting it all wrong and I am getting it right?
" It is the nature of AM or SSB radios."
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Yeah, like yours with cheap or sloppy shielding. That whine is from other oscillators.
"Uh huh, and how would a digital system behave differently?"
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It is in the frequency synthesis. With analog, one would slew through the frequencies, in digital you step through them. With old home analog sets, one could set the dial by finding where the dials of others were set, by taking the whine down to zero beats, aligning it with the frequency of the other oscillator. It can sound like a Theremin. The military had theirs safely shielded.
Apparently not good enough for those Apollo quiescent conditions.
Ira, give it up. You challenged me a long time ago, and I proved my reality.
You could not stand it, so you follow me around, trying to denigrate whatever I post.
Just outgrow it.It is not a problem for me so I don't feel like I need to out grow it. It seems to be a problem for you so why you don't outgrow you need to come here to pretend to something you are not?
"Ghost images"? On a radio? You cannot explain it, so you parrot some name for video quality aberrations, usually caused by reflections from metal structures in the real world, poorly set-up antennae, or other interference.
Ira, I am teaching you, not pretending anything.
You are the communications amateur.
Please get over the fact you folk challenged me on being at Edwards AFB, until I sent you the front page of the newspaper of the Air Force Flight Test Center with my picture on it. You said I did not write a thesis, until I sent it to you. You said I did not work comm systems until I sent you the pic of the ARC-51X on my bench. You asserted I did not help start, deploy, and operate the Electronic Battlefield until I sent you to three military websites with my name and/or picture on themEvery time george kamburoff gets caught in a lie he lists his alleged accomplishments as if they would make his lies true.
Well that proves it, . . all those things I said are false, . . huh? You really are removed from reality, there in the brown water. No challenges? You asserted my thesis was not valid. Then, you asserted I left out 20 pages or somethingWe asserted that your MS in environmental engg was a lie and you yourself provided ira with info that confirmed it was a lie.
And I was heterodyning unmodulated signals from an RF Sig Gen with the blah... and you STILL think this makes your lies in the above thread true??
Kind of agree with the explanation.
Let's say you have one oscillator running at maybe 455kHzUnfortunately you don't seem to know this stuffs any better than glam-Skippy. Your mixing oscillate don't run on the IF frequency. It adds (or subtracts) the frequency needed to produce the 455kHz IF frequency.
some intermediate frequency mixing stage of your fm receiverFM receivers are not heterodyning receivers. You are the characteristics of FM mixed up with AM.. FM does not typically use an IF stage(s) like AM, it uses frequency multiplier stages.
Btw. I was also once radio technicianSounds like you and glam-Skippy went to the same tech school. You just got AM characteristics mixed up with FM characteristics and think that the stuff you don''t seem to have learned correctly was overlooked by the NASA engineers.
JCD919, wouldn't it be nice to hear it,to know if it changes frequency, or amplitide,
and sample the quality of the wave?Naa, they beamed it back to Houston Control, but nobody looked into the In Box so they have not gotten around to it yet.
We need those characterizations to understand the phenomenon.YOU need a lot more than that. So far you are really looking pretty silly.
If that was the case then you would expect a null when they were fully half way through the dark cycle and different rise-fall profile beyond that point.
Give it up, Ira.Why? It is GREAT BIG FUN. Which is why I asked you why you come here, it makes you grumpy and with the bad mood all the time.
making you look silly.According to the Mrs-Ira-Skippette I was looking really silly a time before I ever met you You can't take credit for something I was a long time before I met you.
I taught waveshape analysis for power systems for a living.
Sorry, . . I had to
They made me do it.Yeah, with you it is always "they made me do it". Everything is always somebody elses fault.
Honest.Glad to see you finally trying to get a sense of humor, keep up the good work.
The rudiments can be found in that delta-wye transformer with the switch-mode loads on my web site page, showing predominately third harmonic currents in the secondary and mostly fifths in the primary. Now, why do you think that is, . . ?
Oh good, having challenged me again and lost, you are free to giggle yourself away with Mrs. Whatever.
The Apollo Unified S Band Communications System
The S-band uplinks and downlinks normally used phase modulation (PM) containing data and voice subcarriers.
Phase modulation is closely related to frequency modulation (FM); it is often used as an intermediate step to achieve FM. Mathematically both phase and frequency modulation can be considered a special case of quadrature amplitude modulation (QAM).
Unified S Band System Ranging Measurements
Allocating uplink/downlink frequency pairs in a fixed ratio of 221/240 permitted the use of coherent transponders on the spacecraft. Coherent in this sense means there is a specific temporal relationship between the radio uplink and downlink signal phases. Then the phase or timing differences can be more easily analyzed to determine speed and distance between the spacecraft and tracking station. The Apollo spacecraft receives the uplink carrier, and with a phase locked loop system, generates a downlink carrier related in frequency by the ratio 240/221. When no uplink was received, the transponder downlink carrier was generated from a local oscillator at the nominal frequency
Seriously let him hypothesis WITHOUT getting bashed immediately or made fun of just cuz you guys haven't like what he's said in the past.
Show us.
Maybe back when you asserted impedance does not include Ohmic resistance?
Or when you found out I really did write that report after doing the studies for NASA?
Send me your email address, and I'll send you a lot of stuff you will find fascinating.
No you did not. How do they get from gigahertz to audio?
References to the 553 Recon Wing Batcats? Istwave? Westin's Batcage page?
The Power Quality Course for EPRI?
Ira... you do seem to just have it out for gkam...like...almost...every time he posts something.... Even if you don't agree.... like why are YOU obsessing over his (in your opinion and others) flawed ideas?@ Psilly-Skippy. How you are? I am good me, thanks for asking.
unrealone1 1.3 /5 (13) 15 hours ago
Sounds from the next studio?
How do they get from gigahertz to audio?
antigoracle1 /5 (3) 4 hours ago
"Uh huh, and how would a digital system behave differently?"
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It is in the frequency synthesis. With analog, one would slew through the frequencies, in digital you step through them. With old home analog sets, one could set the dial by finding where the dials of others were set, by taking the whine down to zero beats, aligning it with the frequency of the other oscillator. It can sound like a Theremin. The military had theirs safely shielded.
Apparently not good enough for those Apollo quiescent conditions.
Hey georgie, you keep accusing me of trying to trick you. Well, guess what?
the poorly-shielded oscillatorIra says
All communication engineers know about heterodyningEikka says
The technology was called homodyne or synchrodyneNASA says
Heterodyning[see video link at about 1:35-1:38- Captain]
These sounds were most likely frequency-sweeping radio interference from the VHF rangefinder used to help the Apollo Command Module and Lunar Module keep track of one anotherso... from what i can tell, it is definitely NOT a "poorly-shielded oscillator"
Without a recording, we are all in the dark. I want to see it on a 'scope.
I taught it in ways schools do not-Which is why you lost that job in addition to a dozen others, isnt it?
which is why I got those great comments from folk who finally "got it"-What- these comments?
It's obvious you made these up yourself.@otto
Didn't you?
apparently nobody asked you to do one of those jobsUhmm... but you've only proven that you CALL yourself an engineer... you can't produce a license proving you ARE one
Three departments competed for me in an engineering positionWOW! REALLY? THREE? OMG! call the president! [sarc/hyperbole]
and went around hrWell OF COURSE they did. That was the only way you could have gotten such a job.
Technical Services wanted me, and I spent over five years as Senior EngineerEvery time you tell the story the time line changes. If you were an SE for 5 years how did you have time to teach 33k real engineers?
Ira, you are not going to be known as some Cajun Philosopher, so get that out of your mind.If it's all the same to you Cher, I would prefer being know as just plain ol Ira-Skippy.
The "Uncle Ira Show" as you call it, where you show up them edgicated fools only works in Louisiana and other backwaters.Well that don't say a lot about your education then, does it?
I'll help you figure it out.If it is all the same to you, judging by your performance on the physorg, I think you might be the last person I would go to for help. And yeah, I need help on a lot things from time to time.
Thanks.You are welcome, the advice is free (and comes with a double your money back guarantee.)
But I did get a kick out of teaching "real" engineers what they should have learned-More thinly-veiled derision for people who could earn what you never could.
who are you ottoI'm the guy who knows exactly who and what you REALLY are.
No, those were the jobs I filled, and that was my title and profession at the time@benni-kam
who hate me for being reali have no problem with your PROVABLE experience
Let's talk about Ira sending me those oscilloscope traces that are so easy to get@benni-kam
Why you don't play the videos in the article then you CAN HEAR what all of us has heard already.so again, you are proven to be a LIAR with something that is in B&W in the thread
Don't you know how to record the sound from the interweb stuffs? Then you can run through it your "scope" until your heart is content and come back and give us all a report on what you found and the NASA engineers missed
Let's talk about Ira sending me those oscilloscope traces that are so easy to get.
I'll help him investigate it for waveshape and characteristics such as risetime, decay periods, entrained frequencies, and other clues to the origin.
Ira... you do seem to just have it out for gkam...like...almost...every time he posts something.... Even if you don't agree.... like why are YOU obsessing over his (in your opinion and others) flawed ideas? Seriously let him hypothesis WITHOUT getting bashed immediately or made fun of just cuz you guys haven't like what he's said in the past. As bad as the deniers get on this site and as funny as you can be sometimes..... sometimes your nagging is just as bad. Your feeding into your own i dono w/e the heck the deniers feed into. if gkam is an old 72 year old man with different older ideas than you and keeps being persistent and posting on here... WHY FIGHT? Everyone on this site needs to freakin chill most times i swear
sometimes I wish the lot of them would just get a room......@Zzzz
is she a baiting troll idiot with no ability to prove herself?I have come to the conclusion glam-Skippy really does have some serious mental conditions issues. So I am going to add him to the troll box where I don't get to see his postums anymore. My mama would not like it if I was picking on a person with real handicaps like glam-Skippy seems to have.
absolutely
but until she is banhammered....
@benni-kamher reply to me:
we can alleviate a few problems and "public discussion" by the following
No, you got all you are going to get. You already have the body of my thesis, a copy of the MS cert, and some pics. Look at the pdf of the base newspaper I sent youof course, NONE of this proves you were "affiliated with commando's", let alone forward deployed in 'Nam
I will find solutions to the Stump Problem.obviously I hit a sore spot in the attempt to actually get her to validate a claim
I hope there is a legal one
glam-Skippy really does have some serious mental conditions issuesthat still doesn't give her the right to her stolen valor claims OR claims of being engineer
The real thing here is the radio silence when the Earth is blocked by the mass of the Moon.
It would probably be swamped by the white RF coming from Earth sources.
Unfortunately you don't seem to know this stuffs any better than glam-Skippy. Your mixing oscillate don't run on the IF frequency. It adds (or subtracts) the frequency needed to produce the 455kHz IF frequency.
FM receivers are not heterodyning receivers. You are the characteristics of FM mixed up with AM.. FM does not typically use an IF stage(s) like AM, it uses frequency multiplier stages.[/q}
my radio technician education was like 20 years ago, ... the point was that the noise could have been produced ny other equipment radiating in the mixing stage. So well, maybe the oscillator wasn't a fixed one, but a VCO synchronized maybe via a PLL circuit to some transmtted reference. So maybe the PLL unlocked due to lost signal, the VCO was swinging freely => frequency drift and auto gain did the rest ...
whatever ... I still know my stuff well enough. lol
Uncle Ira
Feb 22, 2016You are tripping over the basics again to try to sound smart. Cher, study up on sum and difference mixing again so you can your "lesson" right.